Paphiopedilum niveum var. ang-thong

[toddybear]

Finally a new paph has opened. Not much in either the paph or phrag department these days. This niveum is a first-time bloomer. A bit disappointed in the pinched dorsal. Hopefully the problem will correct itself.

 

[JeanLux]

just consider the positive side : nice white color, fine spottings, petals and pouch look good to me!!! Jean

 

[P-chan]

It has a lot to be proud of! Very nice!

 

[GuRu]

I wouldn't be disappointed due to the dorsal because the rest of the bloom looks fairly good and altogether it's o.k. for a first time flowering plant.

Best regards from Germany, rudolf

 

[Roy]

Nice flower Todd but looks a straight niveum, don't see any P.godefroyae there at all.

 

[goldenrose]

just consider the positive side ......

It bloomed!!! :clap:

 

[Kavanaru]

Ditto!!

 

[John M]

Very attractive! I bet the dorsal does straighten out on future bloomings.

 

[toddybear]

I was thinking it looked like straight niveum but the vendor claimed it was var. ang-thong....doesn't really matter to me as I am not a breeder.

 

[SlipperFan]

Nice flower Todd but looks a straight niveum, don't see any P.godefroyae there at all.

I'm confused. Is ang-thong a cross between niveum and godfroyae, or is it a variety of niveum???

 

[Roy]

I'm confused. Is ang-thong a cross between niveum and godfroyae, or is it a variety of niveum???

Dot, ang-thong is considered to be a Natural Hybrid between niveum & godefroyae and most of the wild collected ones have the markings of godefroyae and to the greater extent, the same shape, ie. triangular dorsal & petals. Man made crosses are known as P. Greyi which generally look nothing like the natural ones, they are have less markings and a more refined rounded shape like bellatulum hybrid. Todds plant 'could be a P. Greyi but has taken to the niveum side heavily but my doubts are there.

 

[SlipperFan]

Dot, ang-thong is considered to be a Natural Hybrid between niveum & godefroyae and most of the wild collected ones have the markings of godefroyae and to the greater extent, the same shape, ie. triangular dorsal & petals. Man made crosses are known as P. Greyi which generally look nothing like the natural ones, they are have less markings and a more refined rounded shape like bellatulum hybrid. Todds plant 'could be a P. Greyi but has taken to the niveum side heavily but my doubts are there.

Thanks, Roy. Why doesn't ang-thong have an "X" in front of it, as is common with natural hybrids? I guess that's why I was confused.

 

[Roy]

I think its that the RHS treat it as P. godefroyae for registration purposes and that it hasn't been granted any clear statis. ie, its been left open for commercial interests to make of it what they can.

 

[Rick]

Dot, ang-thong is considered to be a Natural Hybrid between niveum & godefroyae and most of the wild collected ones have the markings of godefroyae and to the greater extent, the same shape, ie. triangular dorsal & petals. Man made crosses are known as P. Greyi which generally look nothing like the natural ones, they are have less markings and a more refined rounded shape like bellatulum hybrid. Todds plant 'could be a P. Greyi but has taken to the niveum side heavily but my doubts are there.

If the man made crosses look nothing like the "natural crosses" then what documentation suggests that ang thong is a hybrid rather than a local variant of niveum.

Too me anyway this whole group appears to be one smeary mess with belatulum at one end and niveum at the other.

It's also a good thing that the brachy species have been hybridized so that no one will be able to tell what they are looking at anymore.oke:oke:

 

[Roy]

"If the man made crosses look nothing like the "natural crosses" then what documentation suggests that ang thong is a hybrid rather than a local variant of niveum."
Not sure of documentation, just the RHS describes it as such from their ?reliable? sources and collectors from decades ago.

"It's also a good thing that the brachy species have been hybridized so that no one will be able to tell what they are looking at anymore"
Very correct statement and I couldn't agree more.

 

[SlipperKing]

If the man made crosses look nothing like the "natural crosses" then what documentation suggests that ang thong is a hybrid rather than a local variant of niveum.

Too me anyway this whole group appears to be one smeary mess with belatulum at one end and niveum at the other.

It's also a good thing that the brachy species have been hybridized so that no one will be able to tell what they are looking at anymore.oke:oke:

Here we go again!

 

[Lance Birk]

"Ang Thong" is an island in the Gulf of Siam, one the few with a fresh water source. For ages it has been a resting point (mostly for pirates) for foreign traders doing business in Thailand.

For plant collectors it is a collection point location (everyone knows where Ang Thong is) for the the different types of orchids found on the islands in the gulf. I never found paphs on Ang Thong myself and I do not believe P. niveum ever grew in the gulf, it is found only on the western side of Malaysia, and possibly on the lowermost portion of W. Thailand.

All the P. godefroyae types appear to be transitional species and I have never seen any influence from P. niveum in any that I saw or collected. In my opinion, most all "natural hybrid" paphs are new or transitional species.

I think there is so much confusion over P. godefroyae and P. leucochilum because people like Phil Cribb never went there, they only rely on pathetic herbarium specimens, not living subjects. I made two trips to the area, I don't know of any taxonomist who made even one.

Some of you have my book; specific habits are clearly detailed there.

www.lancebirk.com

 

[tomkalina]

Not sure where we got this photo, but this comes a close as anything we've ever grown labelled Paph. niveum var Ang-Thong. Based on previous experience, they tend to be more difficult to grow than straight Paph. niveums - at least for us.

 

[CodPaph]

very nice

 

[paphjoint]

Very Nice !!