OrchidSafari ARCHIVES*

I do not intend to cover every one and the ones we do cover, we will cover briefly. A picture is worth a thousand words. So here's 2,000 words...L. flava growing on the iron ore mountains outside of Belo Horizonte.

And L. mantiquierae in the same vicinity, notice the leaves that are stained by the iron ore.

marylois
Oh, my! The L. mantiquierae is sooo nice!

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
The center of distribution for the section is the state of Minas Gerais with representation also in Rio de Janeiro and Bahia and maybe Espirito Santo if you include the tree dwellers harpophylla & kautskyana. A fair number of these orchids have been described in our lifetime....L. angereri was described only 23 years ago.

Gypsy-43
In what family is L.mantiquierae?

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
These are all Laelias, Gypsy...rupicolous (rock dwelling) Laelias.

There has been much confusion as to the correct taxonomy of the species that make up the section and many are being re-ordered as we speak. In the thirty years that I have been growing orchids L. ostermayeri has become L. lucasiana and rupestris is still on the fence with crispata, crispilabia & mantiquierae, etc.

Native Heart (Jane in Fort Lauderdale)
Greg, pretty cool in those areas?

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
They say that it is Jane...most of these Laelias are from 2000-4000 feet elevation. And yet we have no trouble growing them in hot Florida.

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
Because some of the species are relatively new to the orchid world they have been little used in creating hybrids and we can only imagine what tasty little mini-catts will spring from the loins of L. angereri, L. briegeri, L. ghillanyi, L. blumenscheinii, etc.

Jane5536 (Long Island, N.Y.)
A question --are Laelias sincorana and jongeana classified as rupicolous?

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
No, Jane (NY), both sincorana and jongheana are more closely allied with the pumila group. L. sincorana mostly grows on vellozia shrubs on the Serra do Sincora.

Some of these Laelias are old timers at fathering orchid offspring. Since being described in 1960, L. milleri has already contributed its fine form and brilliant color to 413 hybrids spanning 5 generations. Two well-known offspring are Bl. Richard Mueller, and Lc. Rojo.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Should the hybrids have the same culture?

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
That depends, Ellen. on how much the Laelia influence is present. We grow Lc. Rojo along side of the Laelias but Richard Mueller with the Catt hybrids. As with most hybrids, they are usually more adaprable than the parent species.

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
I have Lc Rojo, but mine doesn't look that good!

Native Heart (Jane in Fort Lauderdale)
Have noticed that YOU and Carol have no trouble with growing them, but they just conk out here at the DePadro farm.

Jane5536 (Long Island, N.Y.)
Should they be given strong lite?--high in a greenhouse? I mean the straight species not hybrids.

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
I'm not seeing too many new posts so I'm going to slow down a bit...AFTER I make mention of the rupicolous Laelia breeder of them all ---Laelia cinnabarina, whose brilliant color has been added to many of our modern Cattleya hybrids. Since being described in 1838, cinnabarina has sired 6,700 offspring across 13 generations. It's hard to imagine what our Cattleya hybrids might look like without breeders having L. cinnabarina and flava in their pallettes.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork (Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork)
Lc. Rojo is magnificent.

jlenev (joan in reno)
I hope you'll mention resources for some of these species and hybrids.

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
I'm going to get into the culture in a few minutes...I have even put together a little potting demo for you folks. Rather than go over each of the species seperately; where they are found, when they were described, etc, I have provided a photo gallery page which you can open and refer to as we mention a certain species or just look through the pix if you like.

Native Heart (Jane in Fort Lauderdale)
Greg, they are such pretty little flowers, so flat and such perfect arrangement, ie equilateral triangles and all, but I have killed more than a few. I must be way way hotter than you, or something is out of whack?

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
When you repot lithophytes, I'm sure the San Antonio Botanical Gardens would LOVE anything they got!

schaeffa (Markus - Sao Paulo, Brazil)
I am enchanted of your proposal to talk about the rupiculas.

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
Well Markus, please correct me if I make any glaring errors. Most treatments you will find on these Laelias will group them by color; yellows, red/oranges, lavenders....that's OK, but as far as I'm concerned L. itambana has nothing to do with L. flava.

lisav-bigred
Oh, WOW!! Beautiful photos!

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork (Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork)
Great pictures.

paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
I want L. cinnabarina!!!

Josh319 (The hosta, water garden, and orchid guy from Iowa!!)
I'll take one of each :)

schaeffa (Markus - Sao Paulo, Brazil) Greg, I would have liked to add one flower more to your marvelous collection (the fotos are yours?) - a L. bradei - but it will last a few days until it will open.

The foto of the L. lucasiana is excellent! My favorite...

Native Heart (Jane in Fort Lauderdale)
Greg, how many of these are you cultivating here in HOT SOUTH FLA?

uncleearl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Personally, I am in love with the lilliputiana!

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork (Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork)
I'm with you, Earl.

Native Heart (Jane in Fort Lauderdale)
L. lucasiana is very beautiful, wish mine were still alive.

Josh319 (The hosta, water garden, and orchid guy from Iowa!!)
Earl -- Me too!! I gotta find one.

schaeffa (Markus - Sao Paulo, Brazil)
Earl, you are right. The L. lilliputana is precious!

Native Heart (Jane in Fort Lauderdale)
I like "the thumb" too!

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
The thumb lets you know for sure that it's a lilapute!

Native Heart (Jane in Fort Lauderdale)
Sure does. [the entire flower is no larger than the thumbnail pictured]

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Greg--youre pictures are fantastic!!!!

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
Markus, we are working our way toward the culture of thes beautiful little jewels. I would like to propose two arbitrary groups that define growth and flowering habits and provide a bit of culture guide. This is easy, we have the tall group and we have the short group.

Native Heart (Jane in Fort Lauderdale)
Such beauty. They are precious.

uncleearl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Greg - What do you use to take the pictures?

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Greg - what speed should a person set his camera (film-type) to get a picture off of a computer monitor - I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE A PICTURE OF YOUR PICTURES!!!!

jagso
Wow.. It was nice to see all of them ... good pictures and fast loading.

Jane5536 (Long Island, N.Y.)
L. lucasiana is my love.

lisav-bigred
I agree, Jane -- such intense color and perfect shape!

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
Lucasiana has always been my favorite too.

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
Back to the two groups. The tall group includes TALL plants and/or a TALL inflorescence. These plants can be a foot or more tall and the inflorescence a foot or more above that. The tall group matures growths all at the same time and they all flower together, once a year, usually in the spring. The flowers open more or less at the same time except for endsfeldzii and they usually occupy the upper third of the inflorescence with flava being crowded at the end. This group includes Laelias angereri, blumenschienii, cinnabarina, endsfeldzii, flava, mantiquierae, rupestris and others I haven't grown. Most of these species also flower from a sheath.

paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Greg, will L. cinnabarina bloom in S. Fla?

schaeffa (Markus - Sao Paulo, Brazil)
L. rupestris (marvellous!) is now considered L. crispata, if I am well informed... isnīt it?

jagso
Well.. In this part we generally see only Laelia hybrids crosses with cattleya and other groups but not the species..Are there any site links to this group of orchids and where one can locate? Thanks.. Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Also any dealers we can purchase from?

schaeffa (Markus - Sao Paulo, Brazil)
Greg, what you said about the tall ones is convincing to me. What is about the other group? And what about the cultivating conditions you give - are they related to these groups?

Josh319 (The hosta, water garden, and orchid guy from Iowa!!)
Is crispata the same as crispa?

schaeffa (Markus - Sao Paulo, Brazil)
No, L. crispa is another one. Like an L. purpurata, but curled and much bigger than the crispata...

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
Wel the jury is still out, Markus, depending on who you are talking too. Lucasiana used to be known as ostermayeri and mantiquierae is also sold as crispilabia, which it is not. Unfortunately, orchid taxonomy is not an exact science. Fortunately, we are horticulturists not taxonomists and we can enjoy their beauty regardless of what whoever is calling them.

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
Well said, Greg! *S*

schaeffa (Markus - Sao Paulo, Brazil)
Naturally, Greg. I wouldnīt enter in an sterile discussion about taxonomy. To they the truth, I wanted to know it just to assure that we are talking about the same thing.

Jane5536 (Long Island, N.Y.)
Is reginae an old name for something else--what colour?

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
L. reginae is a distinct species Jane with smaller pink flowers and a yellow lip, The plants resemble L. ghillanyi when out of flower.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
I just found 2 or 3 of these in the catalog from Oak Hill Gardens in Illinois.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Thanks, John.

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
No sir, Josh, L. crispa is in the purpurata group. Paula, we flower cinnabarina easily here. After we get through the culture part i will make some suggestiona as to where you migh find some of these plants...remind me. OK back to the two groups. The SHORT group are mostly less than 5 inches tall with lilliputana being the rebel both in size (about an inch or so) and in flowering habit (all at once in the spring, sometimes again in the summer). These species have a broad blooming season, usually late spring or summer, and will flower on each new lead produced during that season, sometimes over a period of two months. picture The inflorescence can be tall or short or in between. This group includes Laelias briegeri, esalqueana, fournieri, ghillanyi, itambana, lucasiana, milleri, reginae and some that I haven't grown. These plants seem to always be in growth whereas the TALL group have a more defined growing season. Not all of these orchids fit precisely into either group...briegeri is somewhat between depending on cultivar and the broad flat leaves of milleri more resemble a miniature L. sincorana than the other SHORT species.

jagso (JAGS,ORCHIDS ASIA, BOMBAY,INDIA)
Which of these are very fragrant..and what about the breeding characteristics...

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
No problem, Markus...I figure I'll let Braem and the rest of them battle it out for naming rights and pick up the pieces when the dust clears. These two groups can give us a little insight as to how to grow the orchids. We give them all a decided dry, cool spell in the winter by moving them all out under the orange tree for a little 'toughening up'. But because the TALL group has more defined growth patterns it is more demanding of that 'rest' period. The SHORT group can be kept growing all year but also benefit from a cool, dry rest period. While the tall group DEMANDS a cool rest, we give them ALL a cool rest.

Jane5536 (Long Island, N.Y.)
Winter rest period? For how long?

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
Jags, so far, the only one on which I have detected a fragrance is L. fournieri which has a delicate clove fragrance. All of these Laelias impart their brilliant colors and diminutive size to their progeny. The only drawback is the starry shape and this usually disappears by the second generation. Using choice clones helps too.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
How long is the dry rest period? graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
We usually start moving them out of the shadehouse as soon as we start to get temps in the fifties and leave them out until new growth shows in the spring. Roughly, Dec - March.

The more or less vertical leaves of these species tell us that they grow under high light conditions in nature. Keep in mind though, that it is not always beneficial to duplicate nature, which can be overly harsh. We grow our Laelias bright. They are shaded from the Florida sun by only a layer of window screen. This does not mean that you have to though. The late James Nickou of Connecticut reported that the Laelias would actually die if subjected to full sun and recommended Cattleya conditions for them.

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
So they get rain under the tree during that period?

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
The plants in that last picture are all hanging ten feet up. close to the screen.

lisav-bigred
Winter is our dry season in Florida, marylois.

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
No rain at all? Generally monsoon-like here in winter.

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
Only when it rains Lois ;-) nothing else though.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Are they grown successfully in the northeast?

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
I would not keep them with my Phals, but if you can grow bifoliate Cattleyas, Slc's or Oncidiums there is no reason you can't grow rupicolous Laelias. Despite their reputation they seem to be adaptable plants. These are mostly mid-elevation orchids from mountains in the 2000-4000 ft. range where the nights are cool. By all logic, we should not be able to grow them because of our constant heat and yet they thrive.

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
A friend waters her cacti only when the paper shows rain in AZ - I'll watch for when it rains in FL. *S*

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
DO NOT make the mistake of thinking that because these plants live on rocks that they are xerophytes. We water ours three (or more) times a week and fertilize once a week during spring and summer. In a temperate climate you will probably want to cut that back a bit.

jagso (JAGS,ORCHIDS ASIA, BOMBAY,INDIA)
Some plant on the left in the shadehouse seem to have redddish pseudobulbs.. Do they really have reddish sheaths or is it due to culture conditions?

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
Jag, some of the Laelias naturally produce reddish anthocyanin pigment to protect themselves against bright light. In nature, these plants are usually shaded by only grasses and low shrubs.

Jane5536 (Long Island, N.Y.)
Greg--can we talk abt potting?

schaeffa (Markus - Sao Paulo, Brazil)
What kind of substrate do you use for these Laelia?

Jane5536 (Long Island, N.Y.)
I have some of mine in rocks but they are watered frequently.

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
That sounds like a good plan, Jane. More important than light or water is how you pot them. I would strongly urge you to follow the suggestions we are about to discuss. Sphagnum, fir bark, peat based 'mud' and maybe even tree fern will eventually kill these orchids. I have seen people successfully growing the Laelias on driftwood, but lava rock, Aliflor and gravel are far easier media. We have been using the Aliflor and lava rock combination for two years with great results. I have put together a little potting demo for tonight. You may view it.

jlenev (joan in reno)
Would you suggest a growing medium for them. I have several hybrids (Slc. Jungle Beau and Sl. El Dorado Sunrise) growing in ceramic pebbles (Aliflor). I have L. milleri in a bark/sphagnum/charcoal mix. I have no idea what is best and can find very little info in my books. Can you also recommend a book or some articles on the subject?

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
Hubby drilled holes in lava rock and I put several in the holes with small charcoal...all died.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
What is Alifor?

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
That's an interesting comment, Lois...I tried the same thing fifteen years ago and THEY all died too. I hope the potting demo helped answer all questions about potting these things.

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
This was 5-6 years ago...now I think I'll give them another try (using your instructions)!

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
Beautiful demo, very easy to understand.

jagso (JAGS,ORCHIDS ASIA, BOMBAY,INDIA)
WOW..It is good presentation... Congrats on the images and text...Good show...Greg...Impressive.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
You made a convert. I'm going to try a couple.

lisav-bigred
I'm printing out those instructions as we speak -- er, type!

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
Greg's programs are always outstanding!

CaryStarr (Cary... Boca Ratons STARR, of Tommorrow, Today!)
Lisa, my machine is working also!!!!!

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
Gotta say it, Greg - ya got style! Nice page!

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
I did not mention it here, but I would caution against plastic pots, clay breathes better and they don't like to stay soggy.

CaryStarr (Cary... Boca Ratons STARR, of Tommorrow, Today!)
Excellent Greg!!!!! Miss Levy and I have our hand bags under our arms! Shopping we MUST go!

jagso (JAGS,ORCHIDS ASIA, BOMBAY,INDIA)
Do you have a regular dosage of Contact or systemic fungicides.. and are they very susceptible.

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
I am pretty much finished but I will mention a couple other resources. I have also re-installed online last year's O zone issue where you will find additional information regarding the culture of rupicolous Laelias button as well as an interview with Francisco Miranda and a culture sheet.

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
Wait, Cary, he's going to tell us where to shop!

schaeffa (Markus - Sao Paulo, Brazil)
Excellent demo about potting! You prepared a lot of things, I admire!

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Greg, can you give us the easiest ones to get started?

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
Yes! That potting demo needs a permanent home on the web - as does this program tonight.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Excellent program.

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
I think that Oak Hill has alot of these babies and at very reasonable prices, no - Greg?

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
Jags, we apply Cleary's and Aliette and maybe Banrot each once a year. If we get a really rainy spell maybe we'll do an extra dose of something. And I always keep Captan paste ready for any suceptible new leads. We don't get much rot with these plants...occasionally we'll lose a new lead. Oh, one thing to watch out for; if you have a scale problem, keep an eye on these Laelias because scale can easily hide between the pbs and get established before you know it...just like Encyclias.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Jane, where did you order your plants from?

uncleearl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Aloha for now, guys - Excellent program, Greg! Nite.

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
I believe you are right about Oak Hill Gail. I think Andy's 'orchids on a stick' has a few and last year at the Redlands Carter & Holmes had bottles of a choice briegeri sib cross, which I like a fool, did not buy. I would say that to begin with try lucasiana, briegeri, fournieri and especially angereri if you can find it...what a show !

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
Oak Hill Gardens is on line.

paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Greg, fabulous program! Thank you!

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
Thanks Earl...before everybody leaves, let me make a shameless plug for The Orchid Photo Page --- At long last we will have a new issue of The O zone online next week and it promises to be a good one...check it out !

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
Promise to go and read it, Greg. Thank you for tonight - absolutely spectacular presentation! Your expertise at orchid growing and photography may even be exceeded by your computer knowledge!

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
You know this must be very recent, I was looking for them on the Orchid Mall Sunday when I did my newsletter for the Coalition, wanted to put it in, since he is our speaker and it wasn't there.

lisav-bigred
Truly outstanding, Greg. Thank you so much for all the info and pictures!

schaeffa (Markus - Sao Paulo, Brazil)
Nite Greg! This was really a great program! I enjoyed it a lot (and there is a lot stuff to read for...). Nite all!

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
Thanks everybody, for your attention, and the great input.

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
Greg you were fantabulous, you always do a superior job.

CaryStarr (Cary... Boca Ratons STARR, of Tommorrow, Today!)
No, no, no, Greg THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!

jlenev

Thank you, Greg. Very informative. Beautiful pix.

jagso (JAGS[ORCHIDSASIA,Bombay.)
Greg...Thanks for all the presentation and the good job that you did.

Jane5536 (Long Island, N.Y.)
Nite all-great programme--kudos to you Greg!!

KB Barrett
I'll be anxious to read the transcripts!

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
I'll edit this one, Kathy - Greg was FULL of tricks tonight *G*

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach)
Hi Kathy, we missed you. I could go through the whole thing again for you Kathy ;-)

foxtail2 (foxtail2(doug palm harbour fl.))
Greg, great program - thanks.

graphicgreg (West Palm Beach):
OK folks, I'm going to head on out...I'll try not to be such a stranger if I can ever get my work caught up...goodnight

Go Back

- 30 -