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Jul 1, 2022 5:20 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
I know what you are saying. I had two "stillborn" spikes myself. It might be a little crude and insensitive of me to refer to them like that but both spikes suddenly stop growing. They seemed to be stuck in time. One browned after two months and the other after three.
I have to remember later on this month to ask a couple of growers up here, what they think. One has dozens of awards, some for Phrags. I need to ask her at the Lansing Orchid Society picnic later this month.
Another grower is a judge. Maybe they have an idea as to why.
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
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Jul 15, 2022 2:26 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
I am still seeing fabulous results with these novelty Phalaenopsis under my lights. Leaf production is great with each new leaf being of medium green color, glossy, of good substance and at least as large as the previous leaf. I recently noticed that some of my plants are producing two leaves at once.
When you see this with orchids, it often indicates a pronounced response in the positive to better growing conditions.
I also see roots developing all over as well.

Now I am just about finished with subjecting my Phragmipediums to the same treatment. Media in the bottom of the pot, then moss, then top dressed with media. I am now, after being 3-4 weeks into this program, beginning to see positive results. The leaves on these plants have improved color and improved substance. This can easily be attributed to increased water within the plants tissues.
I even notice that one of them, Phrag. Acker's Trinket is in spike! Oh boy. I
Like that. That might be an earlier then normal blooming. Last year the first few set bloom spikes in early September.
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
Last edited by BigBill Jul 15, 2022 2:29 PM Icon for preview
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Jul 15, 2022 8:07 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 7a
Orchids Plumerias Cactus and Succulents Region: New Jersey Region: Pennsylvania Native Plants and Wildflowers
Greenhouse Ponds Keeper of Koi Forum moderator Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Adeniums
Bill, it sure sounds great! Thumbs up
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Jul 15, 2022 8:19 PM CST
Name: Ted DeWitt
Brea, CA (Zone 10b)
Orchids Container Gardener Butterflies Plumerias Hummingbirder Growing under artificial light
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Bill, I follow your earlier method for Paph's and it has been extraordinary. Now I am seeing some ealy improvement on the Phals I have used Oreo methodology. Early, but looking good. Now if this works for Phrags I need to send you a gift card to Brookside. Rolling my eyes.
Showing up is 88% of life
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Jul 15, 2022 8:37 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
Oh man Ted, that is just great!
I know it is still a little early on my Phrags but they, I suspect, will respond like the Paphs.

Don't send me anything, it is gift enough to know that you are seeing some good growth and success. In fact, since my Phalaes. are looking so good, I am watering like once a week instead of five days. The media is holding a little more moisture, humidity is as high as 82% some days so my watering schedule has changed accordingly.
As we go into Fall, even under lights, I have to be careful and go back to watering every five days if indicated.
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
Last edited by BigBill Jul 15, 2022 8:38 PM Icon for preview
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Jul 29, 2022 9:39 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
I am just sitting here waiting for my sister in law to arrive and I was using the time to diagnose or trouble shoot a Phalaenopsis leaf problem.



I am hoping that you all can see the problem on the middle leaf in the image. At first glance I was not sure exactly what this problem was. My research now shows me, 98% confidence, that this is damage caused by Fusarium wilt in Phalaenopsis. I recently lost the leaf just before I left for Long Island.
The disease looks like sunken tissue, slightly paler and yellowish in color then the surrounding healthy leaf tissue. I lost the leaf suddenly last weekend. This 'sunken appearance' indicates the Fusarium wilt is collapsing healthy cells and blocking water transportation across the leaf. I should have removed 80% of the leaf immediately on arrival BUT I did not. Now I may lose the plant. Where the leaf was, point of attachment, the Fusarium may have invaded the core of the plant.
I now have to pretty much hope for some type of keikie sprouting from a basal vegetative eye.
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
Last edited by BigBill Jul 29, 2022 9:49 AM Icon for preview
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Jul 29, 2022 11:25 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 7a
Orchids Plumerias Cactus and Succulents Region: New Jersey Region: Pennsylvania Native Plants and Wildflowers
Greenhouse Ponds Keeper of Koi Forum moderator Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Adeniums
In my early days of Orchid growing I was confronted right "out of the gate" with exactly that problem.
We had a local Orchid nursery here, about 20 minutes from our house. I spent many Saturday morning looking around in their very interesting greenhouse and a lot of my earliest plants came from there. (they closed up shop for local business years ago)
Now the way they watered many Orchids was by dunking them into a large water barrel, one after another. Oh boy!!
Two things I took home from the place, one was a massive outbreak of Boisduval scale, a great way to get to know those critters as a bloody beginner ( oh just some powder from previous treatment/their words) and the second problem was - using their words again - some so called Microfungus! Okaayyi voice up!!
I learned what that latter meant, every Phalaenopsis would slowly show sunken lesions in the leaves, one by one would get brown and drop until there was a stump left in the center, and that would kill the plant totally. New leaves might come out clean, only to succumb to the same malady. I learned it spreads, it might not show up in a Cattleya, but if a Cattleya carried the infection, it would spread to the new Phals in the collection.
Long story short, 1. forget that greenhouse and 2. don't grow Phals for the next 5 years at least. That is exactly what I did!

Now Bill, you have a huge advantage here, you know what you are looking at and you can take action. You will clean it up in time and everything will be good!

I had no clue when I started out!!
Last edited by Ursula Jul 29, 2022 11:30 AM Icon for preview
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Aug 4, 2022 3:17 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
This is my newest novelty Phalaenopsis to flower. It is a beautiful little plant with three spikes.
This is Phal. Tying Shin Flying Eagle 'TS-66'. It is a hybrid of Phalaenopsis tetraspis x Phal. Dragon Tree Eagle. It is in a 5" plastic pot.


I have included an image of this plants' newest leaf which is shiny, rich green and glossy. It measures about 7" long by 4" wide. Roots are everywhere.
Background color is chartreuse, segment tips very slightly pinched and chartreuse. Flowers heavily overlaid burgundy with concentric circles towards the center. Lip is strikingly colored, white basally with bright orange mid lobes with a pink front lobe.






Flowers measure almost 2 1/2" wide and are quite waxy. There isn't any fragrance as of yet. Plant is in a 5" plastic pot using the "Oreo" method. I have had it since early May.
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
Last edited by BigBill Aug 4, 2022 3:19 PM Icon for preview
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Aug 4, 2022 3:43 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 7a
Orchids Plumerias Cactus and Succulents Region: New Jersey Region: Pennsylvania Native Plants and Wildflowers
Greenhouse Ponds Keeper of Koi Forum moderator Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Adeniums
It is very pretty! Lovey dubby
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Aug 4, 2022 6:51 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
I had some time this afternoon to go through my Phalaenopsis collection and check on the health of every one of the 25 plants growing there. I found Phal. Tying Shin Flying Eagle in bloom and I had not noticed that it was in bud! Now normally that would be looked upon as wonderfully good news. And it is!!!
BUT, I did find things that were not quite as nice. 😂😂😂
This is now going to be something that I recommend to every single person out there. If you do not check your plants on a regular basis, IT IS TIME TO START!!!
What did I find?? Well in addition to a plant in bloom, I found two plants that need repotting. So I will do that tomorrow. But I also found mealybugs. Not lots of mealies but some nevertheless! And when you can find the time to look at your plants, you can clean up these little beasties right away. You get them taken care of immediately. I used Bayer's 3 in 1 spray and a thin probe.
I could look under leaves, look at developing spikes and look closely at the cores of all of my Phalaenopsis. I could look down into the crown of each and every plant. Not only did I find a few mealies in the crowns but I found evidence of their presence. I found "honeydew"! That is a sticky residue left behind by feeding insects, not just mealies. This allowed me to treat for them without seeing them.
Dried or even moist honeydew is sticky to the touch. Very sticky. It tells you immediately that mealies are present. Treat ASAP!!!
So take advantage everyone. The days are getting shorter. Not for my Phalaenopsis per se but for me too. Earlier sunsets extend night time hours. Put some of those longer night time hours into something very positive, insect irradiation. Your plants will love it!!!
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
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Aug 9, 2022 2:46 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
When we grow orchids, it is really one long continuous learning experience. With every success comes a few failures. We just hope that the successes go higher and greatly outnumber the failures.
Here is a caution that I can not emphasize enough. With my novelty Phalaenopsis, the "Oreo" method has been doing very well. However, during my recent 'mealybug hunt', I came across one Phalaenopsis that wasn't looking so good. The lower leaves were looking wrinkled and low on water. I turned out to be correct.
Pictures were not needed in order for me to describe what I found. Upon taking everything out of the pot, I found that 90% of the roots were dead. I knew that ahead of time when I saw those droopy, wrinkly leaves. The roots were not absorbing enough water. I knew that in all likelihood, I had packed the sphagnum moss way too tightly.
So I repotted it being careful not to cram it in there too tightly. As I believe that I have stated before, moss packed too loosely causes a problem by drying out to quickly. In my case, packing it too tightly caused it to stay far too moist for far too long! And when that happens, bye bye roots.
Now since Phalaenopsis respond very well to repotting by throwing out new roots, I am not concerned long term. The plant will be fine.
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
Last edited by BigBill Aug 9, 2022 2:53 PM Icon for preview
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Aug 9, 2022 6:42 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 7a
Orchids Plumerias Cactus and Succulents Region: New Jersey Region: Pennsylvania Native Plants and Wildflowers
Greenhouse Ponds Keeper of Koi Forum moderator Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Adeniums
Never a dull day for a dedicated Orchidist! Smiling
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Aug 23, 2022 5:48 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
Here is yet another novelty Phalaenopsis that flowered just the other day. This is Phalaenopsis Mituo King Bellina 'Wilson'. It is Phal. LD's Bear King x Phal. LD Bellina Eagle.



Flowers are good sized, about 2 3/4" wide and are both flat and full. You can see the background color of golden yellow with a hint of green.
You can see the influence of Phalaenopsis bellina which is one both the pollen and pod parent side of this hybrid. You have that concentrated purple or dark amethyst swatch running lengthwise down the sepals. It has a floral scent to it, maybe similar to a ripe mango.
In general these flowers have been lasting about 5 to 5 1/2 weeks. They have a very heavy substance, kind of waxy accounting for the flower longevity.
It is so nice to get near the shelf where these plants are growing. What a nice fragrance!!

Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
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Aug 23, 2022 7:11 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 7a
Orchids Plumerias Cactus and Succulents Region: New Jersey Region: Pennsylvania Native Plants and Wildflowers
Greenhouse Ponds Keeper of Koi Forum moderator Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Adeniums
This one is gorgeous! Lovey dubby
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Aug 24, 2022 1:37 AM CST
Name: Alice
Flat Rock, NC (Zone 7a)
Birds Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Region: North Carolina Hydrangeas Hummingbirder Dog Lover
Container Gardener Charter ATP Member Garden Photography Butterflies Tropicals Ponds
I agree, I love these little guys.
Minds are like parachutes; they work better when they are open.
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Sep 3, 2022 4:11 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
Here is a real cutie pie.






So why buy this? Well, aside from it being a really sweet little plant, I went for the lineage.
This is Phal. Jiaho Summer Love. It is Phal. Taisuco Mikey x Phalaenopsis bellina.
Two important things to remember. How many times do you read labels and yet have no idea as to whether or not to buy something, especially out of flower!! Well Jiaho is a fairly new nursery in Taiwan producing quality Phalaenopsis. So anything with Jiaho in the name is likely to be good. Plus Taisuco comes from the Taiwan Sugar Company. There are an older nursery from Taiwan and they have produced hundreds of quality Phalaenopsis. So anything with Taisuco should be quality!!!
These are readily available on line. 2" flowers on a plant that produces lots of spikes and colorful 2" flowers. Everyone should be able to find room for this little beauty!! Thumbs up I tip my hat to you.
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
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Sep 7, 2022 4:22 PM CST
Name: Alice
Flat Rock, NC (Zone 7a)
Birds Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Region: North Carolina Hydrangeas Hummingbirder Dog Lover
Container Gardener Charter ATP Member Garden Photography Butterflies Tropicals Ponds
This is from the St. Augustine Orchid Society newsletter. Are the novely Phals considered intergenerics?

Courtney introduced our guest
speaker, Alan Koch of Gold Country Orchids. Courtney
first met Alan in North Carolina when the orchid groups
would share guest speakers and someone had to drive
the speaker from one location to another. They have
been orchid friends ever since the 80's. Alan's talk tonight
was on Phalaenopsis/Vanda Intergenerics. Intergeneric
Phalaenopsis hybrids are easier to grow than Phalaenopsis,
maintain the flowers longer and bloom more often than a
normal Phalaenopsis plus many are even fragrant. The
bright colors, fragrant flowers and smaller hardier plants
were part of the reason he likes hybridizing them.
Alan said his love for Intergenerics started while he was
judging the Taiwan international orchid shows. He said the
college students would make crosses to get seedlings.
If a large nursery purchased their seedlings, they could
get thousands of dollars for one cross. It made for a lot
of competition and variety. Alan also likes Intergenerics
because one never has crown rot, absolutely never except
for one plant, Irene Dobkins. He advises never buying this
plant because he has never had one live for him. He then
showed a slide of Phal. Aphrodite which had a spectacular
array of inflorescences filled with white flowers. This was
achieved by not letting the plant flower for three years,
annually repotting, which produced a strong root system
and then when let to flower, it burst out full of them. Another
slide from the Taiwan show was of a C. skinneri with 702
flowers
Alan stated that breeding is important but your culture
is more critical. Water, water, water is the most important
key to good growing. He waters three times a session
noting that the harder your water, the longer you water. He
advises to water once to wet the surface, the second time
with fertilizer to wet surface and media, and the third time to
leach the plant and flush salts from the media. A discussion
occurred about how long to water, and Alan said it depends
upon humidity and water quality. He usually waters for 45
minutes once a week but during the current hot spells in
California, twice a week. He is also misting his plans several
times a day to cool them down, but with his low humidity
the leaves dry quickly so he doesn't have a problem with
the misting causing rots like we would here in Florida. He
showed a slide of a test he conducted by growing identical
seedlings for three months, half with RO water and the
other half with well water. There was a striking difference in
the plants grown with RO water.
Alan strongly encouraged using a well-balanced fertilizer
and recommended MSU formulas for either hard water or
rainwater. He suggested reading materials on rainwater by
Dotty Woodson. When one sees the long green root tips,
the plant is in active growth and has the greatest need for
fertilizer. When the root tips shorten and aren't as bright
green, the growth rate is slowing. For micronutrients, he
suggested Plantex 20-20-20 Classic Water Soluble Fertilizer,
which has twice the normal amount of trace elements, and
STEM by Peters. Another fertilizer that provides calcium
and micros is Metalosate (which smells like soy sauce due
to the presence of amino acids). Calcium is needed by
orchids in order to build strong cell walls, increase disease
resistance and promote strong flowering.
For the Intergenerics, Alan suggested that one can use
any media as long as it is of high quality and has good
drainage. Many of the intergenerics are made using Doritis
(now Phalaenopsis) pulcherrima that grows on rocks, so it
needs to dry out in-between waterings. Other Intergenerics
can grow in clay pots with moss but since the roots
photosynthesize, he normally uses clear plastic pots or
mounts. Mounted plants are easier to flush. He uses panty
hose to secure the plant to the mount and joked that's the
only good use for panty hose. Plants that tend to stay wet
in nature are more salt sensitive and need to be flushed
more.
Alan ended his presentation with slides of various types
of Intergenerics. Many of the intergenerics are made with
Doritis pulcherrima and Rhynchostylis gigantea. One very
cute intergeneric is Vandaenopsis Newberry Whimsy, made
with V. cristata and Phal. philippinensis. One to avoid is
Vandaenopsis Irene Dobkin, that no one seems to be able
to keep alive. However, some of its offspring like Jiaho's
Orange can be found in cultivation.
Minds are like parachutes; they work better when they are open.
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Sep 7, 2022 5:02 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
The answer is yes. Those are intergeneric hybrids.
An intergeneric means a hybrid or cross between two separate genera like a Cattleya with an Epidendrum, or an Oncidium with a Miltonia.
But again, this is a conundrum made by recent DNA research that has realigned species. For example, a Vanda crossed with a Neofinetia used to be a Vandafinetia. Now with DNA results shows the Neofinetia is properly a Vanda. So a Vanda times a Vanda produces a Vanda.

A similar thing happened with Doritis x Phalaenopsis. For a great many years those hybrids were Doritonopsis (Dtps.)
But with DNA research moving the genus Doritis into Phalaenopsis, you now have a Phalaenopsis x Phalaenopsis. That is no longer an intergeneric.
Now just to further confuse everyone, I am using the term Novelty Phalaenopsis to describe hybrids strictly within the genus Phalaenopsis. These hybrids are smaller growing, fragrant, summer blooming plants that have brightly colored flowers. They have very glossy, almost round leaves that remain very low in a pot.
Now there are speakers/breeders who use the term novelty Phalaenopsis to describe something like Rhynchostylis gigantea x Phalaenopsis pulcherrima. Remember pulcherrima is now a Phalaenopsis for RHS registration purposes!!! So it technically is a novelty Phalaenopsis cross but not Phalaenopsis by Phalaenopsis.

Alan's talk on those hybrids were intergeneric hybrids.
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
Last edited by BigBill Sep 7, 2022 5:14 PM Icon for preview
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Sep 7, 2022 5:23 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Big Bill
Livonia Michigan (Zone 6a)
If you need to relax, grow plants!!
Bee Lover Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Orchids Region: Michigan Hostas Growing under artificial light
Echinacea Critters Allowed Cat Lover Butterflies Birds Region: United States of America
Another thing we need to remember is that you can grow Phalaenopsis any number of different ways.
And remember, any good speaker modifies his talk to fit the region he is speaking in.
I have known Alan since the mid 80's myself. Great Orchid grower.

And remember, I am growing under lights. That presents a whole host of challenges! I grow using the "Oreo Method" and I use plastic pots only.
Orchid lecturer, teacher and judge. Retired Wildlife Biologist. Supervisor of a nature preserve up until I retired.
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Sep 8, 2022 5:35 AM CST
Name: Alice
Flat Rock, NC (Zone 7a)
Birds Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Region: North Carolina Hydrangeas Hummingbirder Dog Lover
Container Gardener Charter ATP Member Garden Photography Butterflies Tropicals Ponds
Wish I could have gone to that meeting. Priot to going out of town in late July I stashed all my container plants, including orchids under shrubbery so they would get watered from the rain/irrigation system while we were gone. Since I have been stuck in the house ever since I got curious and asked my husband to find my one and only little novelty Phal, I had an idea where I maight have hidden it. He found it, told me it was on tis side but darn, that plant looks good. It liked summer camp outdoors. No flowers, we had had some deluges so the flowers that were on it are gone, but the leaves are glossy and there are several new ones.
Minds are like parachutes; they work better when they are open.

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